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Gail Ambrosius
Well, I grew up on a dairy farm in Seymour, Wisconsin, and I'm one of 10 children. I was the sixth. There were six girls and four boys in the family. My parents had a small dairy farm; I think it was about 120 acres.
Working out in the fields with my dad, helping milk the cows, doing barn chores. In the house, it was with my mother. Since she had ten children, she was in the kitchen a lot, cooking. She was a really great cook. She didn't use a lot of recipes, only when she baked, so I kind of learned how to cook just from watching her. She would always be baking, and if you wanted "mom" time, that was a good place to find her. You'd just pull up a stool and watch her cook and talk to her while she was cooking. That's how I really learned how to cook, just by watching. When I cook today, if I'm making a meal, I hardly use a recipe. If I'm baking, then I'll use one, and that's kind of how she did it. Some other really fun memories: holiday time. She would love to make candies and chocolates. That's really were I picked up my love for baking sweets, and especially chocolates.
When I was growing up, I think it was a lot more traditional. I just turned fifty, so I'm a different generation than you are. When I was growing up, no one asked me where I was going to college, because it was just expected that you were going to get married and have kids and stay at home. That's the biggest difference. By the time I was in my teens, that was the beginning of the feminist movement, and I really looked at those women as models and heroes, and thought, "There's no way I'm just going to stay at home and have babies! I'd like to have a career and I'd like to do something with my life." Not that having babies isn't something that's valued and important, but I wanted more. I saw my mother and how hard she worked with all these children, and I thought, "I'd like to try something different." I think that was a key thing. Even in my high school, I remember getting the counseling, and my counselor asked me what I wanted to do with my life, and I said, "I don't know." He told me, "Well, I'm sure you can get a good job as a cashier at a grocery store." And I thought, uh, no. I kind of nodded and smiled, then turned around and laughed. I never went back to that counselor again.
I think a lot of it was just kind of learning as I went, you know, the school of hard-knocks. I was a very independent person. I left home on my 18th birthday, so I've always had to take care of myself. I think it was always the sense of having to land on my feet, and knowing that I can take care of myself and that whatever I do, I'll succeed. I think having a lot of confidence in yourself and belief in yourself that you can do anything, and really trusting that you can do whatever you set out to do. That was a lot of it. Having people believe in me, to help me get that confidence, that was a key factor.
A lot of people. I like to travel. When I was 17, I went with my high school French club to Paris after studying the French language and culture for three years. I think my French teacher was really instrumental in it all. I think he really believed in his students, and gave us the courage to be who we wanted to be and who we are inside. He really fostered that. When we went to Paris, that's were I found these little pātisseries and chocolate shops. I really started thinking, "Wow. This is such a different way of life than a small town in Wisconsin." There both good, but it was just different. It opened my eyes to other ways of living, other lifestyles, and how people of other cultures live. I like to travel, so every time I travel I look at local restaurants. I like to go to local markets or even grocery stores, and just see how those people live every day.
Yeah, I think so. In Paris, or in bigger cities - I don't know how to describe it. You know, how in Wisconsin, there's a certain small town feel, and it's very local. People look after each other, or want to know about each other, sometimes good, sometimes not so. In a bigger city, it's just a different culture. Maybe more sophisticated? I don't know. Maybe looking at the arts and the artistic way of things instead of the "down-homey". I've tried to borrow some of that artistic and put a really nice style on things, but have it be so comforting that you can identify it as something very homey, if that makes sense.
Could you describe your path of education?
After I left high school, I actually went to school in Minneapolis for a travel agency. It was just called a travel school and I think there were four of us from our high school that went to this school. It was in downtown Minneapolis, and it was great; I lived right downtown. I could walk on the skyways everywhere. In the winter it was great. I think we all had these visions of these glamorous travel careers, and when we finished, we all became travel agents. It wasn't quite as glamorous as I had hoped. After a year of being on the phone, it was right as computers were coming in, so I was literally on the phone all day with airlines, and hotels. I was bored with booking all these trips for other people that I wasn't going on! So I thought, I don't think this is for me. So I went back to school. I went to the university here, because I was living in Madison, and then I dropped out after two years because I still wasn't sure of what I was going to do. I was wasting my time switching my major every semester. Then, I took some time off, I got married, I had a baby, then I got divorced and went back to school. I studied cartography, which was something I had always been interested in, but people kept telling me, "You're never going to find a job making maps." But, I got a job with the state of Wisconsin, and I worked there for 10 years, five as an LTE, and five as a permanent employee. Then I lost my job, and I went way back to that memory of being 17 in Paris, and seeing the chocolates and the people reacting so pleasurably when they ate those things. I always thought if I could bring a little of that back to the US, that would be a gift to give to people. I decided that that was what I was going to do. I started searching online, "How do you learn to make chocolate?" It was just a bunch of dead ends. There were pastry schools, there were culinary programs, but usually the chocolate piece was very short. I thought, "You know, three days, that's not enough time." I finally found this online class. It's called Ecole Chocolat. The woman is in Vancouver, and she used to own a chocolate shop. Prior to that, she had been a professor at a university teaching business. She sold her chocolate business after 10 years to go back to teaching, and she decided to combine her two loves. Now, she teaches this online program; not only how to make chocolates, but also how to open your own business. It was really kind of tailor made. It was a three month program, but I hesitated. How was I going to learn to make chocolate online? I kept calling her and sending her emails, and finally she just called me and said, "You know what? Just trust me and take the class." So I did and it was great. After that, I was eligible to take a tour she takes with other people to France, and then you study with French chocolatiers. It was a week-long program at Verlona chocolate maker. They're very well known, both in France and in the US. They're the gold standard for pastry chefs and chocolatiers. They have really high-quality chocolate. So, I trained with them and then I stayed for another week and just toured on my own, tried to visit as many chocolate shops in Paris as I could. Then, I took a train to Normandy and studied for one day with a chocolatier from Michel-Quisel, that's another big chocolatier in France.
A lot of it is that I read as much as I can. I have this many books on chocolate in the back and at home. So it's a lot of self-study, too.
I don't let it get to me. I don't see barriers, I don't say, "Oh, I'm a woman; he's a man." I try not to look at that. I've always had a problem with hierarchies. I've just kind of ignored those. It got me into trouble at the state, because if I saw a problem and I knew who could fix it, I would just go to them. I wouldn't always go to my manager first because I knew they're not as effective as this person who I know and I know I can talk to them. But when I was opening my shop - this is the second location I've had. The first location, I had to build it. And there were big men and they all sort of looked at me like, "Aww, isn't this cute. You're gonna make candy." I said, "No. This is my livelihood. This is how I'm going to make a living. I'm a single mother, I need to support my son. I need to support myself. I have a mortgage payment to make. This isn't a hobby." And they're like, "Oh, isn't that cute. What's your husband going to do. Is he paying for this." I said, "No, no. There is no husband. You don't get it." There is some of that, but I can just let it roll off my back. I set them straight, and then I just don't even give them the time of day. Don't patronize me.
Freedom, me being the boss. I'm kind of a control freak; I think a lot of entrepreneurs and business owners must be. I think entrepreneurs like to be entrepreneurs because they have stronger personalities, they're stubborn, they want things done their way. I think I'm definitely that kind of person. I'm very independent, so it would be tough for me to go back to a job where I had to work for someone else. I like to be the one in control: setting the quality, setting the standard, making sure the customers are getting really good service. I had worked in customer service for a long time while I was in school in different jobs, like in the food and retail business, so I know how important it is treat customers. I think I can come at it from both sides. I know what the customer wants because I'm a consumer myself, so I know how to give really good service and what a really good product is.
How has being a woman influenced or affected your career?
Like I said before, I've never thought of myself as someone whose going to get married and rely on a man and sit back and let them do everything. That would be so boring to me. I am a very independent person and I'm very strong-willed, so there was never that. Sure, I'd love to be married someday, to get married again, but not because I want someone to take care of me. I need to have something of my own to fulfill myself. A husband or a child isn't going to do that. I think we all to look within for fulfillment, so that's very motivating. Knowing that I had to rely on myself, it's made me very strong. I know that I can always stand on my own two feet and land on my feet no matter what happens. When I got divorced, that was scary, but I'm a survivor. I know how to take care of myself. I know that if I'm unemployed, I can make ends meet. I would take any job I had to to keep my son happy, to stay in my home. It's made me a very strong person that way. But yet, there's that compassionate side. I know how to treat people. I don't want to hurt anyone's feelings. You've got that warmth and understanding.
I think there is. There are more women in positions of power. It's still definitely not equal. Just on this street, it's really interesting. There's so many women business owners. There's me, there's the dog shop next door. There's women that run Monty's. Yes, it's Monty's, but the managers are women. The pilaties spa, the baby store. All up and down this street there's so many women business owners. Probably, 15 years ago that wouldn't have been the case. I think women are stepping into positions of power and people are respecting that, and realizing that women can do a much better job in some cases.
I still think there's some disparity there. It's getting better.
Yeah. I think there's a real conscious effort to make sure women aren't discriminate against. There have been too many lawsuits in the past, and I think people are very conscientious about not making sexist jokes in the workplace, or harassing people. When I was working in the restaurant business, I was sexually harassed, and it really made me angry, because it was coming from the male manager. I couldn't even believe that when it happened because I thought we were way past that. That was in the early eighties. I thought we had evolved, but it was still going on. I'm out of that business now, but I'm sure it happens occasionally. I think it's getting better.
Quite a bit. My mom was a stay at home mom, and she had 10 children. She was born a Catholic, so she believed in that, and they don't believe in birth control. They had no control over their own reproductive cycle, and I think that's changed a lot. Even practicing Catholics today, I think take some precautions. They're not as dogmatic as it had been in the past. I think that's a huge shift; for women to control when they want to have a baby, even if they have children, that's going to make a huge influence on their life. I think women are able to make their own choices now. We're stronger, we don't have to rely on a man to tell us what to do. I think it's really exciting to see women stepping up to the plate, taking their position of power, and saying, "I could do anything that a man could do. Probably better, because I'm more empathetic, and I'm more sensitive, and I understand connections and how people work together." A women would put people on teams to see how well they work together, whereas a man would say, "You do this. You do that," and really not look at all the dynamics and how they interact together. They wouldn't get the best outcome. I think there has been a big change. I think it's still shifting, and it's interesting. When I was growing up, women, it was the beginning of the feminist movement, and we wanted to go out and get jobs. It seems like there's a shift now almost the other way. I know a lot of young women today that are choosing to stay home to raise their children, but it's their choice. I think that's great because they can see the options. Yes, they could go to work, and have a career, or they could stay home. They're making that decision based on their own personal beliefs. I think that's great. It's not being forced either way. Women clearly have a choice now, and I think that's fabulous.
Well, I'm not that involved with that.
There are some programs in Madison:
the Rape Crisis Center, things like that. I support them when they have
fundraisers. I think it's a great
program to have, because, unfortunately, that's probably going to continue to
happen. I think women are more
aware of it and they know what to do if they get themselves in that situation.
Luckily, there are programs out there and places they can go for help.
I don't know what to say about that.
It's a sad, sad situation. I
think people are more aware of it, there are programs out there to educate
people, so women can know if they're in a dangerous situation, and just remove
themselves.
I think it's a matter of choice. Everyone has to decide for themselves and what they'd like. I can understand it because it can get confusing, especially if you have children. What are the children's names? Why is Mommy's different from Daddy's? It can be confusing, but I think it's everyone's personal choice. A lot of women look forward to changing there name. It's part of a rite of passage when they get married. If that's what they believe, then I think that's great. I didn't do that. I was married for seven year, and I actually hyphenated my name. No one would use that. They would still call me my husband's name. That really drove me crazy because my husband at the time had a brother, and he married a woman whose name was also Gail. There were two of us. When people called me by his last name, it drove me crazy, because she had also taken her husband's last name, and I would say, "No, that's not me. That's her." Eventually, I just dropped the hyphenation and went by my original last name, Ambrosius. Then people would still call me his name. It just drove me crazy.
Who knows? I don't know the answer to that. I think every situation is different. I couldn't say if your life is easier than mine or a man's. We all have our own lives to live. I'm happy with who I am. I'm glad that I'm a woman. Although, when I was growing up I always wanted to be a boy because I thought boys had it easier. I wonder if that may have been something formative in me, me being such a strong person. I saw how the women of my mother's generation lived and how tied they were to the family and to the "traditional" women's work: the cooking, the cleaning, caring for the household. That kind of bored me. So, I always thought, men have it so exciting. They can go out and get these jobs. Wouldn't it be easier to be a man? As I grew up, I figured all that out and just embraced who I was. I thought, "You know what? I can do anything."
Really believe in yourself. Don't follow the pack and feel that you need to do what everyone else wants you to do. People will tell you, you should do this or that. Take with a grain of salt, but really think about who you are. Follow your own passions and believe it in. We all have things that really spark us. I'd say, listen to it, and your heart. Trust your gut; it won't lie. Really believe in yourself because you can do anything you want.
There's a lot of things, but I do like to embrace that whole feminine side. I love to go to have a manicure or a pedicure, or take a bubble bath at night. Not that men couldn't do that, but it is a very feminine thing. I like to get dressed up. I like to put on heels and go out for special occasions, and be pampered. When the time is appropriate; it's very hard to let someone pamper me! Once in a while I think we all need that. I think recognizing that I do have this very sensitive side, a very nurturing side, and really embracing it. It's nice to be girly every now and then. To sit and have your hair cut and shampooed and styled, it's luxurious. Or to have a glass of champagne with your girlfriends and talk about things we can all relate to. That's a lot of fun.